Mike Moody - What I said, Joe, was that John Carter's great-nephew went to England and discovered the events of The Outlaw Of Torn. While there, John Carter's great-nephew met a British Colonial Official who relayed the story of Tarzan. John Carter's great-nephew then returned to America. While traveling through Chicago John Carter's great-nephew and Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author somehow became acquainted and struck up a writing partnership.
ERB-APA #51
Joe Ferrier - That is ostensibly ERB's initial introduction to John Clayton II, Lord Greystoke, who through some incredible circumstances becomes Tarzan (White-skin) of the Apes, jungle lord, brought up by a she anthropoid when his real parents died.
Mike Moody - On stage, your statement is true, Joe, but offstage not necessarily so. As soon as our discussion of Tarzan Of The Apes is through, I will show you that there is an extremely good chance (off-stage of course) that Tarzan and Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author, met shortly after the ape-man rescues Jane in Wisconsin and before he meets the de Coudes sailing for Paris.
Zdenek Burian
Joe Ferrier - Moody goes on to say that, rather than being born in1888 as ERB wrote, Tarzan was born 1 September 1872 - sixteen years earlier -which, according to his theory, adopted years ago from editor Pete Ogden ("ERBANIA"), would thereby allow Tarzan's son, John Clayton III -
Mike Moody - Believe what you want Joe, but at the roots of my 1872 chronology timeline is Tarzan Alive and the ERB-dom articles discussing the Tarzan chronology subject at that time period. Pete Ogden definitely was not the inspiration for my 1872 Greystoke timeline. It was Phil Farmer. That is when I became aware of John Harwood's 1872 and 1888 chronology articles printed in the Burroughs Bulletin. I certainly read Pete Ogden's chronology articles and owe much to him for keeping me on the right path
ERBANIA #28
Joe Ferrier - "Jack" and/or "Korak The Killer" - the maturity to fight in World War I on the "Argonne Front" (26 September thru 1 November 1918), information that he got from me. Nobody claims Tarzan Alive source - which lacks my specific dates.
Mike Moody - Joe, think whatever you want, that is what makes America great. The truth is Phil's dates, Alan's dates, your dates, my dates, or anybody else's dates, are to me working dates. I will insert everyone's research into what Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author, wrote. Whoever's dates that agree with Edgar Rice Burroughs' provided information the most will be the date I use.
Robert Abbet
Joe Ferrier - Now Moody tells us it took him twenty-one years to validate his hoary hypothesis! 21 years? I spent twenty minutes on mine -
Mike Moody - Joe, when I read your writings, it shows you have spent twenty minutes on them. First of all, mine and your whole conversation on Tarzan Of The Apes has been nothing but a repeat of mine and Alan's earlier ERB-APA discussion. Outside of Tarzan and Jane making out as children, you have not added one new twist to the discussion. Currently, all you are doing is taking mine and Akan's chronology and making personal changes. If you want to make a true chronology, take what Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author, said and add your research to it. Then see what you come up with. Let's see you do that in twenty minutes.
A Chrono-log Of ERB's Tarzan Series
Joe Ferrier - Moody speculates ERB met John Carter's nephew (the "narrator") who gave Burroughs the info sometime "before 1907?" (when ERB checked-out some reference books, pertaining to "APES" or presumably Africa) way before 1 December 1911 there in Chicago.
Mike Moody - Joe that is not what I wrote or stated. I plainly wrote that John Carter's great-nephew was visiting England in 1910 when the Virginian discovered the tale of Prince Richard. On that same visit, John Carter's great-nephew met an Official of the British Colonial Office to obtain the Tarzan story. When the younger Carter returned to America and passed through Chicago, the Virginian passed Prince Richard's and the ape-man's adventure on to Edgar Rice Burroughs the author.
Rather the two partnered up before that meeting or not I don't know for sure, but it does seem likely. Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author, probably meet the Virginian just before he left for England and obtained the information that became Under The Moons Of Mars. While Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author, was penning that adventure John Carter's great-nephew was probably in England getting the next two adventure stories, The Outlaw Of Torn and Tarzan Of The Apes.
The part about Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author's, research in 1907 is a historical fact. I did not make that up. Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author from Chicago, Illinois, was probably researching the jungle lord even then. Offstage Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author, had met Tarzan on the jungle lord's first American visit (August 1893-1894) as a young teen working at the Chicago World's Fair.
Joe Ferrier - ERB aficionados can see for themselves that "JUNGLE TAILS" were written after-the-fact more like Biblical parables/Aesop's fables - to illustrate a moral lesson - rather than delineate chronology or pinpoint an exact year when a lunar eclipse occurred in Africa.
Mike Moody - I repeat Joe. The reason you believe this is because your cut-up chronology will not accept the fact that Jungles Of Tarzan covers a span of two years. Therefore, to fit Jungle Tales Of Tarzan into your chronology you have to hack it up. In the sixties, you older guys always babbled it was impossible to insert Jungle Tales Of Tarzan into Tarzan Of The Apes as a whole. Well, I did it and followed the storyline as presented by Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author. Now accepting this provided info is up to you. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
Joe Ferrier - I just re-read "Jungle Tales" to double-check. No actual mention of the word "eclipse" in chapter twelve "Tarzan Rescues The Moon" that I found in my green McClurg edition, whereas the actual term "eclipse" is used by ERB in "Untamed" to describe a dark night, or moonlight obscured by clouds.
Mike Moody - To me the word eclipse in itself does not mean a thing. What does matter is Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author's description. In Tarzan Rescues The Moon. Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author, is clearly describing a lunar eclipse although the word eclipse, as you say, is not used. In Tarzan The Untamed the word eclipse is used, but it is not used in a manner as to describe an eclipse. Joe, all you are doing is using wordplay. Forget the word, read the descriptions.
Joe Ferrier - Moody tap-dances quite a bit to explain non-existent vehicles, "six-cylinder" automobiles, and/or "limousines" ERB mentioned in "APES" and "RETURN"', Brooklyn Bridge pass for Olga's "stupendous skyscrapers." Thus, disapproves pushback theories of Tarzan's "1872" birth, as illogical, irrational, incredible!
Mike Moody - No tap dances, Joe. Told plain and simple.
If one moves Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author's, Tarzan storyline back sixteen years and removed the modernization, as I have done, the events will remain exactly as told by Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author. Interestingly enough if you accept Tarzan's 1888 birth neither John Harwood's, Phil Farmer's, Alan Hanson's, nor your 1888 chronology storyline runs as presented by Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author. There is... no Edgar Rice Burroughs, the narrator, and no lunar eclipse.
Mike Moody - Sorry Joe. Still, don't buy your theory in APE-END-DUM. Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author, says Tarzan is twenty when he meets Jane, not fourteen or fifteen as you suggest. You act like Tarzan is going to seduce Jane because of his animalistic upbringing and natural urges. No way. Tarzan, by this time, had accepted the fact that he was a man, not an ape. From his reading, the ape-man learned all he could about "man." Therefore. the jungle lord knew to protect the weaker she's of his species.
There is no way Tarzan would forcibly rape Jane. It was the first white woman the jungle lord had ever come into contact with, and he instantly fell in love with her. The ape-man wanted to win the Baltimore native's love, not have forcible sex with her. If the urge had been that great the ape-man would have taken some of Mbonga's women. Which Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author's, jungle lord never did.
There is just no way that Jane's personality would have welcomed, or allowed, the jungle lord's advances in pre-marital sex. Especially as young as you claim. The reason I say this is because of her Christian upbringing and the sexual rules of the times. Don't forget her father was an ordained Methodist minister. I can't see a very young Christian teen turned on enough to go against her every belief, especially with all the stressful excitement going on. Look how long Jane dated Clayton. I don't believe she was having a sexual affair with him. Jane, in my opinion, was a Christian and conducted herself with the highest honor.
Mike Moody - Joe that is not what I wrote or stated. I plainly wrote that John Carter's great-nephew was visiting England in 1910 when the Virginian discovered the tale of Prince Richard. On that same visit, John Carter's great-nephew met an Official of the British Colonial Office to obtain the Tarzan story. When the younger Carter returned to America and passed through Chicago, the Virginian passed Prince Richard's and the ape-man's adventure on to Edgar Rice Burroughs the author.
Rather the two partnered up before that meeting or not I don't know for sure, but it does seem likely. Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author, probably meet the Virginian just before he left for England and obtained the information that became Under The Moons Of Mars. While Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author, was penning that adventure John Carter's great-nephew was probably in England getting the next two adventure stories, The Outlaw Of Torn and Tarzan Of The Apes.
The part about Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author's, research in 1907 is a historical fact. I did not make that up. Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author from Chicago, Illinois, was probably researching the jungle lord even then. Offstage Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author, had met Tarzan on the jungle lord's first American visit (August 1893-1894) as a young teen working at the Chicago World's Fair.
Pablo Marcos
Joe Ferrier - ERB aficionados can see for themselves that "JUNGLE TAILS" were written after-the-fact more like Biblical parables/Aesop's fables - to illustrate a moral lesson - rather than delineate chronology or pinpoint an exact year when a lunar eclipse occurred in Africa.
Mike Moody - I repeat Joe. The reason you believe this is because your cut-up chronology will not accept the fact that Jungles Of Tarzan covers a span of two years. Therefore, to fit Jungle Tales Of Tarzan into your chronology you have to hack it up. In the sixties, you older guys always babbled it was impossible to insert Jungle Tales Of Tarzan into Tarzan Of The Apes as a whole. Well, I did it and followed the storyline as presented by Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author. Now accepting this provided info is up to you. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
Jungle Tales Of Tarzan #1
Joe Ferrier - I just re-read "Jungle Tales" to double-check. No actual mention of the word "eclipse" in chapter twelve "Tarzan Rescues The Moon" that I found in my green McClurg edition, whereas the actual term "eclipse" is used by ERB in "Untamed" to describe a dark night, or moonlight obscured by clouds.
Mike Moody - To me the word eclipse in itself does not mean a thing. What does matter is Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author's description. In Tarzan Rescues The Moon. Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author, is clearly describing a lunar eclipse although the word eclipse, as you say, is not used. In Tarzan The Untamed the word eclipse is used, but it is not used in a manner as to describe an eclipse. Joe, all you are doing is using wordplay. Forget the word, read the descriptions.
Joe Jusko
Joe Ferrier - Moody tap-dances quite a bit to explain non-existent vehicles, "six-cylinder" automobiles, and/or "limousines" ERB mentioned in "APES" and "RETURN"', Brooklyn Bridge pass for Olga's "stupendous skyscrapers." Thus, disapproves pushback theories of Tarzan's "1872" birth, as illogical, irrational, incredible!
Mike Moody - No tap dances, Joe. Told plain and simple.
- John Carter's great-nephew visits England in 1910 and obtains Prince Richard and Tarzan's stories
- Offstage John Carter's great-nephew meets Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author from Chicago, Il. The two form a writing team.
- The two under the pen name of Normal Bean produce Under The Moons Of Mars. Under the name Edgar Rice Burroughs, The Outlaw Of Torn, and Tarzan Of The Apes was produced.
- Tarzan Of The Apes being about a present and still living human being, had to be disguised somewhat. To protect the Greystoke's identity the pair purposely moved the events forward sixteen years. Naturally, modernization of the times would be added also.
1890 New York City
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| 1893 Charles Duryea |
Mike Moody - Sorry Joe. Still, don't buy your theory in APE-END-DUM. Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author, says Tarzan is twenty when he meets Jane, not fourteen or fifteen as you suggest. You act like Tarzan is going to seduce Jane because of his animalistic upbringing and natural urges. No way. Tarzan, by this time, had accepted the fact that he was a man, not an ape. From his reading, the ape-man learned all he could about "man." Therefore. the jungle lord knew to protect the weaker she's of his species.
There is no way Tarzan would forcibly rape Jane. It was the first white woman the jungle lord had ever come into contact with, and he instantly fell in love with her. The ape-man wanted to win the Baltimore native's love, not have forcible sex with her. If the urge had been that great the ape-man would have taken some of Mbonga's women. Which Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author's, jungle lord never did.
There is just no way that Jane's personality would have welcomed, or allowed, the jungle lord's advances in pre-marital sex. Especially as young as you claim. The reason I say this is because of her Christian upbringing and the sexual rules of the times. Don't forget her father was an ordained Methodist minister. I can't see a very young Christian teen turned on enough to go against her every belief, especially with all the stressful excitement going on. Look how long Jane dated Clayton. I don't believe she was having a sexual affair with him. Jane, in my opinion, was a Christian and conducted herself with the highest honor.
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| Zdenek Burian |
About The Author
James Michael Moody is a lifelong fan and collector of Edger Rice Burroughs. Moody has contributed over two hundred articles to various ERB-related fanzines, over a span of forty-five years. He also manages an unauthorized Tarzan blog titled, Greystoke Chronologist: James Michael Moody. There the researcher chronologies the Tarzan books starting in May 1872 (known as the pushback theory).instead of the more excepted date May 1888.
James Michael Moody is also the author of the action-packed Sci-Fi fantasy adventure Unium series. Pioneers On Unium, published December 31, 2019, and Exiled On Unium, published August 25, 2022. Swordsman On Unium is going through the publishing process.
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