Joe Ferrier - Mike Moody - self-styled Tarzan chronologist - has adapted Pete (ERBANIA) Ogden's old push-back theory, which would have us fans believe Tarzan was born in 1872 instead of 1888 (as ERB wrote). But every one of them is wrong. ERB-APA #48.
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| ERB-APA #48 |
Mike Moody - Evidently Joe you know as much about Tarzan's chronology history as you know about my 1872 chronology. Just enough to be confused. Number one ol' buddy, you write like Pete Ogden is the father of the "pushback theory." No way. The first Tarzan chronology article was published in December 1947 in The Burroughs Bulletin #6. John Harwood, the original father of the "push back theory," wrote How Old Is Tarzan?
I hate to hurt your feelings Joe, but Harwood in 1947 theorizes that maybe over the years the diary pages may have mildewed and yellowed and become slightly hard to read. When ERB was transcribing his notes he mistook the true date of May 1872 for 1888. Harwood also suggested that Jack Clayton, Korak, was born in 1896, making him eighteen at the outbreak of WW I.
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| The Burroughs Bulletin |
This great masterpiece was so influential that it was reprinted in ERBANIA #8, January 1960. Most everyone between 1947 and 1966 who believed Korak was really Tarzan's son came to accept 1872 as Tarzan's birth. The 1888 advocates still were not satisfied, however, and claimed that automobiles were not in general use In America when Tarzan visited in 1893.
Please note that John Harwood has chosen to view Tarzan as a normal Earthman living on the same planet Earth as we live on.
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| ERB-APA #49 |
George Fowler wrote the second Tarzan chronology article titled The Chronology Of Tarzan which was published in ERB-dom #9, March 1964. Joe, this is the first guy that publicly presented the theory that Tarzan was born premature, not me. ERB in no way implies Tarzan was born premature, and my 1872 chronology in no way, form, or fashion implies that he was. Where in the world did you come up with the thought that my chronology speaks of premature birth? Note George Fowler has chosen to write as if Tarzan were a normal human living on the same Earth as we do.
Pete Ogden's first comments about the Tarzan chronology were published in an editorial, not a chronology article, in ERBANIA #15, September 1964. Pete's original suggestion was that 1888 should have been treated as if it had been a misprint for 1868. Pete also writes that Tarzan was a normal human being living on the same Earth as we do.
Joe, I would like you to note that all major researchers from 1947 through 1966 accepted the fact that Tarzan was indeed born before 1888. In BARSOOMIAN #11 July 1966, Frank J. Brueckel wrote a chronology article that sparked debate, and both John Harwood and John F. Roy wrote a reply in BARSOOMIAN #12. This in turn led to the first article that theorized Tarzan was born in 1888. Again the perspective was that Tarzan was a normal human being living on the earth as we know it.
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| The Barzommian #11 |
John Harwood and H.W. Starr in The Burroughs Bulletin #16, August 1966, offer the theory that the Greystokes' did indeed set sail in 1888, as Tarzan Of The Apes describes, but that Jack, Tarzan's son, was the real baby that died in The Son Of Tarzan. Korak is supposedly Tarzan's cousin. This paper, like most other 1888 theories, avoids the absence of the lunar eclipse around 1908. The writers are still viewing Tarzan as a regular man living on the same Earth as we do.
In ERBANIA #27, March 1971, Pete Ogden in The Red Herring drops his ERBANIA #15 1868 date for Harwood's 1872 and sticks pretty much with Harwood's article in The Burroughs Bulletin #6. Pete's one difference with Harwood is that ERB did not mistake the diary dates, but purposely modernized them to protect the Clayton family's identity. Besides the Greystoke's sailing in 1872, Pete theorizes that the jungle lord meets Jane in 1893, Tarzan marries Jane in 1895, and the two have a son in 1896. Jack Clayton takes to the jungle in 1907, and the family is reunited in 1913.
I will readily admit that before Pete Ogden's 1971 article, I was an 1888 advocate. I tried to form an 1888 chronology based on the storyline presented by ERB and could not. I then tried the 1872 approach of Harwood and Ogden and it worked. My personal research does cause me to side with Pete and say ERB was purposely misleading at times to protect the Clayton family's identity.
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| Joe Kubert |
Joe Ferrier - Mike Moody gave it a shot, based on D. Peter Ogden's push-back theory, that - since Korak (Tarzan's son, Jack) was on the "Argonne Front" (1918) - Tarzan also had to be "older" and thus couldn't have been born in 1888 - so just arbitrarily push that birth year back to 1872 - which makes everything work out okay? This theory is only half right. Yes, Korak is older; no Tarzan is not! Ogden & Moody's theory disregards ERB's birthdate for Tarzan, for starters. Next, it ignores "modernization" - or lack of"six-cylinder" vehicles before "The Return Of Tarzan" (1909 era) if those events took place 16 years earlier.? And it would make characters like Jane a bit past it for her "heroine" role in "Tarzan's Quest" (1914) when she would be over 60 years old - if born in 1873. No way.
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| Tarzan's Quest |
Mike Moody - Joe, I did not just arbitrarily push Tarzan's birth year back to 1872. I spent two years, or more, trying to form an 1888 chronology that conforms to ERB's presented storyline. I could not. With an open mind, I then approached the chronology in the 1872 perspective, first theorized by John Harwood in 1947.
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| Joe Kubert |
Through many hours of research and dissecting ERB's every word, I have now reached the conclusions that I am now presenting to the ERB-APA for discussion. Indeed, my findings agree pretty much with John Harwood and Pete Ogden's findings, but I would like to point out a few things.
- I did not take their word for it. I have spent twenty-one years investigating it. The fact is if Tarzan was a human being on the planet Earth as we know it. If Korak was Tarzan's born son. If you follow ERB's written storyline. Tarzan was born in 1872. No other way, or at least what I have seen presented up to this writing.
- Although my research does not run hand and hand with John's and Pete's, my 1872 chronology is much more complex than either one of theirs. My research shows the Tarzan stories were written by two men, not one. John Carter's great-nephew from Virginia and Edgar Rice Burroughs of Chicago, IL.
- So far, my and John F. Roy's chronology theories are the only ones to include the narrator, John Carter's great-nephew. No Tarzan chronology is going to be absolutely complete until this behind-the-scenes character is included. Therefore, on this one point alone my 1872 chronology is superior to Phil Farmer's, Alan Hanson's, Pete Ogden's, John Harwood's, and Joe Ferrier's.
- I have shown on many occasions (TARZINE #62) that ERB often wrote true family dates and names of family members and friends into his stories. My 1872 chronology, unlike any other, continues this practice for any dates that are needed, but unrevealed by ERB. For example. What day in May did the Greystoke's set sail? Calendar-wise, any day in May would be agreeable with ERB, but my chronology uses May 14 which is the birth date of ERB's brother, Frank. What day in late August, or early September, was Tarzan born? Calendar-wise any of those days are agreeable with ERB, but my 1872 chronology uses September 1, which is ERB's birth date. Of course, this practice doesn't make my 1872 chronology any better than any other research, but I do feel it adds an ERB personal practice.
- I also pointed out the key to completely understanding other people's chronology theories. Make sure your readers understand your chronology perspective.
- Are you talking about nonfiction ERB events, or are you talking about ERB's fictional Tarzan series storyline?
- Does your chronology support a more science fiction Tarzan such as time travel, alternate worlds, dimension-hopping, Burroughs Universe, etc?
- Does your chronology support Tarzan being a normal human being living on the planet Earth as we know it?
- The year your chronology begins.
Unlike any predecessor before me, the heart and soul of my 1872 chronology is that John Carter's great-nephew from Virginia, the narrator, and Edgar Rice Burroughs from Chicago, Illinois, the author, teamed up to write the Tarzan series, plus others. Unrecorded offstage, the two met up and ERB, the author, using the information supplied by John Carter's great-nephew, the narrator, wrote a magazine story, Under The Moons Of Mars.
In 1910 John Carter's great-nephew, the narrator, went to visit an old monastery in England and obtained information for ERB, the author, to write a second story, The Outlaw Of Torn. While in England on that visit to John Carter's great-nephew, the narrator met an official of the Colonial Office who told him the Tarzan story. The official even showed documents to back up his claims. By the way, the officials' story covers all of the events from Tarzan Of The Apes/Jungle Tales Of Tarzan, The Return Of Tarzan, The Beasts Of Tarzan, The Son Of Tarzan, and Tarzan And The Jewels Of Opar.
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| Pablo Marcos |
After the second magazine article was completed the two decided to turn the Greystoke's secret into a series of magazine stories. The ape man's story presented a problem the first two did not. The first story, about John Carter, was so unearthly no one would believe it was anything but fiction. The second story was about the distant past and disagreed with the historical account. So, therefore, could not be proved or disproved.
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| ERB, the narrator. |
This new story, however, was about an influential British family and the events did not occur all that too long ago. After much pondering the two decided to go ahead with the story, but change the true names, locations, and dates to protect the British family's identity just in case the story might be true.
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| Clinton Pettee |
Therefore, when ERB, the author, began writing Tarzan Of The Apes on December 1, 1911, he intentionally changed the British family's names, the actual location of the Clayton cabin, and the Greystoke's actual sailing date, and added some personals. My personal research indicates the ERB writing team moved the actual events up sixteen years. To do this there was a certain amount of modernization the author had to insert into the story to through off the true Greystoke's sailing date.
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| Fred J. Arting |
That is why six-cylinder cars are mentioned in Tarzan Of The Apes, The Return Of Tarzan, and The Beast Of Tarzan when in reality they were steam or electric cars. There were no "skyscrapers" in NYC in 1894, so what was the Countess de Coude speaking of? She was describing the giant tiers of the just-completed Brooklyn Bridge. In 1894 they were the largest structure in NYC and the bridge was the talk of the world and the place to see in the Big Apple.
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| Tarzan Series |
I must admit to you, Joe, that one of the biggest disappointments of the push-back theory to me was the age of Jane and Paul by the end of the series. Regardless of any personal disappointments on age, the evidence still overwhelmingly points to an 1872 birth, if you follow ERB's storyline. Good thing for youth serums.
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| Boris Vallejo |
Joe Ferrier - MIKE "MOUNTAIN MAN" MOODY - Id say your open challenge in ERB-APA, to be "proven wrong" by anybody regards your "Push-back Theory" of Tarzan's "1872" birthday has been duly acknowledged. "Huck" Huckenpohler's historical fact-finding (in ERB-APA #45) pointed out to an aspect that I hadn't yet considered - "Congo Free State" of 1887, that predated Tarzan's birth (1888). That's the first half of a double shotgun blast, followed by my own article. "Six cylinders" (1903-09) - negating "purring six cylinder" vehicles (automobiles ERB noted in Tarzan Of The Apes) prior to 1903, which has you in a deadly crossfire of indisputable facts. Tough to argue any theory against historical dates and technological data. Sorry, your, "Push-back Theory" has now been gunned down, proven wrong!
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| 1893 Peugeot Type 8 |
Mike Moody - I hate to waste my time and energy replying to these two statements because they have been brought up, discussed, and replied to, in earlier ERB-APAs and TARZINEs. Plus, a second time in recent ERB-APAs. Sorry, your intense research seems to have overlooked both of these replies. Joe. I will present them a third time. First of all, let's examine this big shotgun blast that you say Huck delivered.
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| The Best Of The ERB-APA |
J.G. Huckenpohler - (ERB-APA #45) - JAMES MICHAEL MOODY - John Roy and I had the same debate about the chronology of Tarzan's birth a number of years ago. For me, the sticking point has always been the reason for John Clayton, Sr.'s assignment to Africa. Without naming names, Burroughs clearly describes the Congo crisis, brought on by the treatment of the natives in the Congo by King Leopold II of Belgium. The crisis originated in 1884 and led to the creation of the Congo Free State in 1887. Thus, Tarzan's birth can be predated by only two or three years at the most.
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| ERB-APA #45 |
Mike Moody - (ERB-APA #46 - J.G. Huckenpohler - I also had the greatest of pleasures to discuss with John Roy the subject of John Clayton, Sr.'s assignment to Africa. I very much agree with you when you state, "Without naming names, Burroughs clearly describes the Congo crisis, brought on by the treatment of the natives in the Congo by King Leopold II of Belgium." We part company when you stated, "The crisis originated in 1884 and led to the creation of the Congo Free state in 1887. Thus, Tarzan's birth can be predated by only two or three years at the most."
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| ERB-APA #46 |
Huck, my research indicates the Leopold thing peaked in 1884, but it originated much sooner. From mid-century Britain and France began to be more aggressive in their dealings with African societies. This was particularly true before the 1870s when the declining profitability of the vegetable oil trade, led to an increase in disputes between African and European merchant groups.
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| 1872 Africa |
Around 1865 King Leopold, acting independently of the Belgium government, began to make his presence felt in the Congo territories. Slavery, at this time, had been abolished by most European powers and Leopold claimed his presence in the area was to stop Arabs from capturing and transporting slaves from the Congo to East Africa.
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| King Leopard II Of Belgium |
Since the competition was so stiff between the Europeans at this time, Britain and France suspected Leopold of having hidden intentions. Those intentions were to profit himself. By the 1870's it was generally known about Leopold's forcible rubber and ivory collecting, but it was not until 1894 that it became world famous. Thus, John Clayton, Sr.'s setting sail in 1872 would not change his mission in the least. For more on this see The Greystoke's Destination printed in TARZINE #55.
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| TARZINE #55 |
Mike Moody - As you can see Joe, I thoroughly explained to Huck about the Congo crisis. There was nothing new Huck presented in ERB-APA #45 that John and I did not discuss years ago. Evidently, Huck has accepted my explanation theory, at least to the point that he has not responded to my reply in ERB-APA #46. As you will note, there has not been a reply from Huck in either ERB-APA #47 or ERB-APA #48. Maybe you would like to add something on the subject.
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| ERB-APA #45 |
Now, Joe, for your research on six-cylinder cars. I really don't know why you, or a couple of the others, are so jubilant over your ERB-APA #47 article because you offered nothing new that John F. Roy and I have not pointed out years ago. Both of us have pointed out that in an 1872 chronology, six-cylinder cars are an impossibility. Does this mean the 1872 chronology has now been gunned down as you proclaim? Not hardly.
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| ERB-APA #47 |
I have explained on many occasions that John Carter's nephew, the narrator, and Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author, are protecting the Greystoke family's identity. Therefore, in their published account that was moved forward sixteen years, the two changed the Claytons' names, sailing dates, sailing destination, and home, and lost city locations. The autos in Tarzan Of The Apes, The Return Of Tarzan, and The Beasts Of Tarzan were steam and electric cars instead of the deliberately modernized versions described.
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| Tarzan Series |
Now Mr. Auto Research. I challenge you a second time to tell our ERB-APA brothers and sisters just how many different steam and electric auto companies existed in 1893, and just how many brands existed that Tarzan and Canler could have been driving. I have in past articles reported the brands that both most probably would have driven. Let's get it on all the way.
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| 1893 Duryea |
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| 1872 Greystoke Chronology |
Mike Moody - Joe, you may envision yourself as the enviable "Blazing Guns", but as far as Tarzan chronology goes you are the "Shakiest Gun In The West." It's true your double barrel shotgun made a loud noise and spewed out a lot of smoke. But the fact is, when the noise fades and the smoke clears the can is still sitting on the fence post. Not one pellet from either blast dented the can or even came close to knocking the can off the fence post. If you are going to disprove my 1872 chronology, Joe, you are going to have to come up with something new. Bringing up old dead subjects, debated long ago, just isn't going to do it.
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| Burne Hogarth |
Joe Ferrier - Couple these findings with a few other theoretical problems associated with Moody's theory - like Tarzan's "1 September 1872" birthday which would make Tarzan "premature", if his parents were married a scant three months before Clayton received his assignment to Africa, and they sailed off on "a bright May morning" in 1888 - a seven months pregnancy?
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| 1872-5-14 Clayton's sail from Dover England |
Mike Moody - Joe, this deduction must be from your famed Logic 101, or your suffering from high altitude in the Rockies, because you did not get it from my 1872 chronology. Let's take a look back at ERB-APA #19, September 30, 1988, and see just what I did say.
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| ERB-APA #19 |
Date: January 31, 1871
Event: John Clayton and Alice Rutherford were married.
Date: end of April 1871
Event: John Clayton receives his first mission from the Colonial Office.
Date: very late November, or very early December 1871
Event: Lady Alice becomes pregnant.
Date: very late January, or very early February 1872
Date: May 14, 1872
Event: The Greystoke's set sail from Dover, England.
Date: June 14, 1872
Event: Greystoke's arrive at Freetown where they chartered the barkentine, Fuwalda.
Date: June 16, 1872
Date: June 18, 1872
Date: June 19, 1872
Event: At noon the Fuwalda passed a British man-of-war.
Date: June 20, 1872
Event: The Fuwalda mutiny.
Date: June 25, 1872
Date: June 26, 1872
Date: June 27, 1872
Event: Clayton begins to work on a one-room cabin.
Date: near the end of July 1872
Date: August 14, 1872
Date: August 27, 1872
Date: September 1, 1872
Date: end of April 1871
Event: John Clayton receives his first mission from the Colonial Office.
Date: very late November, or very early December 1871
Event: Lady Alice becomes pregnant.
Date: very late January, or very early February 1872
Event: Lady Alice discovers she is with child and the Greystoke's buy child provisions to take along to Africa.
Date: May 14, 1872
Event: The Greystoke's set sail from Dover, England.
Date: June 14, 1872
Event: Greystoke's arrive at Freetown where they chartered the barkentine, Fuwalda.
Date: June 16, 1872
Event: In the morning of the second day aboard the Fuwalda, Captain Billings shot Black Michael in the leg.
Event: On the fourth day aboard the Fuwalda, Clayton came on deck that morning just in time to see the limp body of one of the crew being carried below by four sailors while the first mate stood glowering with a heavy belaying pin in his hand.
Date: June 19, 1872
Event: At noon the Fuwalda passed a British man-of-war.
Date: June 20, 1872
Event: The Fuwalda mutiny.
Date: June 25, 1872
Event: The Fuwalda sights land and that night ERB mentions Lady Alice is with child for the first time.
Date: June 26, 1872
Event: The Greystoke's are put ashore with all their belongings and Clayton builds a tree shelter. That night the two saw their first Mangani.
Date: June 27, 1872
Event: Clayton begins to work on a one-room cabin.
Date: near the end of July 1872
Event: Clayton finishes a one-room cabin built of small logs about six inches in diameter and completely covered on the outside with four inches of mud. He had also completed a stone fireplace and chimney but had not yet made a door or furnishings.
Date: August 14, 1872
Event: British warships search for the Fuwalda and find her wreckage on the shores of St. Helena.
Date: August 27, 1872
Event: Clayton hung the cabin door, completed the furnishings, and moved all their belongings inside.
Date: September 1, 1872
Event: A Mangani bull attacks Clayton while he is working on an addition to the cabin. That night Lady Alice gives birth to a healthy son.
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| Russ Manning |
Now, Joe, us hillbillies ain't never had no Logic 101, much less know what it is. But there is one thing I do know. Very late November, or very early December 1871 to September 1, 1872, is not even seven months. By golly, it's nine months. Joe, Logic 101 without accurate research is not worth a dime.
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| Ronald William Kirby |
What you did wrong is assumed that I approached the Claytons' sailing date like you, Alan, and all my predecessors. I did not. It is important to note that when Clayton receives his African mission ERB in no way implies that Lady Alice is with child, or that the newlyweds leave England immediately after receiving Clayton's mission. Read the Tarzan Of The Apes description again.
Joe Kubert
By your own calculations, Joe, if the Claytons sailed three months after they were married Lady Alice was either pregnant before she got married, or Tarzan was born premature. There is no way on either charge. ERB in no way implies that Lady Alice is with a child at this time. The author also informs us Clayton is a very moral and honorable man.
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| Joe Kubert |
My 1872 chronology shows that John and Alice got married on January 31, 1871 and that Clayton received his African mission at the end of April 1871. The Greystoke's did not set sail for Africa until May 14, 1872, the following year, however. Now you, Alan Hanson, Phil Farmer, John Harwood, and others act like Clayton gets married and in three months' time jumps up, grabs a few belongings, grabs his pregnant wife, and sails off to Africa on some urgent mission. As a personal nickname I have dubbed you guys the "Hasty Guys."
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| Andrew's Church Greystoke |
It is very unlikely that the Colonial Office would take a man out of the Army, raise him to a higher position, and then send him and his wife of three months to Africa for five to eight years without letting them spend some time with relatives before they go. That is not to mention the fact that Clayton would have to have at least a minimum amount of training to handle his new position.
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| May-14-1872 Claytons' Sail From Dover, England |
One must keep in mind that although ERB does not mention that Lady Alice is with a child when Clayton receives his first Colonial Office assignment, he does imply that she is before the newlyweds set sail in May. "In his leisure Clayton read, often aloud to his wife, from the store of books he had brought for their new home. Among those were many for little children - picture books, primers, readers - for they had known that their little child would be old enough for such before they might hope to return to England." ERB-Tarzan Of The Apes.
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| Joe Kubert |
You "Hasty Guys" seem to think there is some kind of highly explosive situation where Clayton's immediate presence is demanded. Your all's description of the Greystoke's hasty departure tends to make one assume that Clayton was going into the direct trouble zone as a spy and that his presence was desperately needed. This is not what my research reveals, however.
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| Africa before Europeans |
So, I won't repeat past claims any interested party should reread my article The Greystoke Destination, Tarzine #55. This research clearly shows that Clayton was going much further south than the actual trouble zone. This in itself implies that Clayton was not being sent as a field spy. Secondly, the fact that he was taking his wife and soon-to-be child should clearly imply that Clayton was not going to be overly exposed to dangerous situations.
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| Tarzine #55 |
This same research also points out that Leopold's African dealings were known to begin around 1865, so Clayton's being assigned to the project in 1872 hardly implies extreme urgency. You hasty guys also seem to think Clayton's quick presence is going to stop, or slow, Belgium down. I hate to inform you that Leopold's oppression was still going on sixteen years later in 1888.
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| King Leopold II Of Belgium |
Joe Ferrier - And Moody's being unaware of the WW I "Argonne Front" taking place "26 September - 1 November 1918" - not 1916 as many fans believe, meaning Lady Jane Clayton wasn't rescued for Pal-ul-don till 1919, that I brought to his attention.
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| J. Alen St. John |
Mike Moody - Joe, it is nice of you to take self-proclaimed credit for teaching me a lesson or two about the Argonne Front. The only problem ol' buddy is I knew about it long before I knew there was a Joe Ferrier. If I thank the proper person it would be Phil Farmer who educated me in Tarzan Alive back in 1972. "He is at the battle of the Argonne, in October-November, 1918, and the following year he shows up to rescue his parents after traversing half of the worst part of Africa alone." Please.
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| Jean-Paul Goude |
Joe Ferrier - Also, Countess Olaga da Cloude would hardly have found anything remarkable about the"stupendous skyscrapers" of New York City in 1893, all too comparatively few.
1893 New York City
Mike Moody - All to comparatively few is an understatement, Joe. The oldest skyscraper in New York City is the twenty-one-story Flatiron Building on 23rd Street where Broadway crosses 5th Avenue. Completed in 1902, it was built in the shape of a triangle.
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| Manhattan Storage 1893 |
So, if there were no skyscrapers in New York City in late 1893, or very early 1894, what was the Countess de Coude speaking of? "Oh, nothing at all my dear. I was but recalling with admiration those stupendous skyscrapers, as they call them, of New York." ERB-The Return Of Tarzan.
As pointed out many times in the past, the word "skyscraper" like "limousine" was a modern word that ERB, the author, purposely added to modernize the actual events by sixteen years. Regardless of the modernized world, it is plain that Countess de Coude saw something stupendous while visiting New York City. What was it? It was the Brooklyn Bridge.
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| 1872 Brooklin Bridge |
The Brooklyn Bridge is a new suspension bridge over the East River. At the time Countess de Coude and Tarzan saw it the bridge was just opening, and it connected the then-city of Brooklyn to New York City. Shortly afterward Brooklyn became a borough of New York City.
John Augustus Roebling (1806 - 1869) born in Munchhausen, Germany proposed the bridge in 1857. Appointed chief engineer in 1867, he spent two years defending his plains. Then, within a few weeks after the plains had been approved by the War Department. Roebling died as a result of a crushed foot while making surveys for the work.
The bridge was completed by his son, Col. Washington Augustus Roebling (1837-1926) born in Saxonburg, Pa. The son had obtained massive amounts of experience from his father while working on earlier bridges. While working on the foundations for the masonry towers in 1872 Washington was stricken with caisson disease (Bends) which left him an invalid for the remainder of his life. He directed the completion of the bridge by inspecting the work with field glasses from his sickroom window.
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| Col. Washington Augustus Roebling |
The Brooklyn Bridge has a span of one thousand five hundred ninety-six feet and was the largest suspension bridge in the world when it was completed in 1883. The bridge hangs from steel cables that are nearly sixteen inches thick. The cables are fastened to stupendous two-hundred-foot towers at either end of the bridge. The bridge has six lanes for traffic and costs about $15,000.00.
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| Brooklyn Bridge |
Joe, what the Countess de Coude actually saw instead of "stupendous skyscrapers" was the stupendous two hundred seventy-five-foot towers of the Brooklyn Bridge. In 1893-1894 those towers were the highest structure in New York City and were the talk of the entire world. People from all over came just to see it.
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| Thomas Adrian Fransioli |
Joe Ferrier - ERB tells us Tarzan was born in 1888 and that his beloved wife Lady Jane Porter Clayton was born in 1889 in Baltimore, Maryland, a year younger than her Jungle Lord - yet - "push-back theorists" claim Tarzan's "old lady" was born sixteen years earlier, in 1873. ERB indicated Jane was 19 when Tarzan rescued her from Terkoz in 1908 - which would make her 30 years old in 1919 while still in Pal-ul-don about to be rescued by Jack/Korak - and about 45 years old in 1934, during "Tarzan's Quest" adventure - yet push backers obviously want us to believe Jane was 45 in 1919 while in Pal-ul-don, and 61 years old during "Tarzan's Quest" tale! Can any right-thinking aficionado of ERB adventurers actually buy into such a hocuspocus hypothesis?
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| J. Allen St. John |
Mike Moody - Nobody likes to think of Tarzan and Jane growing old, but if they were humans living on the Earth as we know it, the natural process must occur. By ERB's own descriptions, even at that age, the Greystoke's were in superb shape for their years. I personally have accepted that it is much better having Jane and Tarzan sixteen years older, having Korak their born son, and a chronology that follows ERB's storyline, than to have a chronology, like yours, that disagrees with the storyline of ERB.
.jpeg "Blue Book Magazine") |
| Blue Book Magazine |
Another couple of points you failed to mention, Joe, is the two occurrences where Tarzan and Jane received anti-aging supplements.
- When Tarzan saved the witch doctor the jungle lord was awarded by going through a native anti-aging ritual.
- Later Tarzan received anti-aging pills which he undoubtedly shared with Jane, Korak, Meriem, Nikimi, Jad-bal-ja, and most probably Dackie/Jackie Korak's son.
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| Tarzan's Quest |
Joe Ferrier - "Push-back Theories" have been proven wrong! No longer feasible. Theories can not be based on false premises at the start, as you have done, then adjust facts to fit the abortion. ERB, our originating authority is the basis for Tarzan's 1888 birth - not 1872.
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| Neal Adams |
Mike Moody - Joe, ERB is as much the father of the 1872 Greystoke sailing date as he is of the 1888 Greystoke sailing date. "I do not say the story is true, for I did not witness the happenings which it portrays, but the fact in the telling of it to you I have taken fictitious names for the principal characters quite sufficiently evidences the sincerity of my own belief that it may be true." ERB-Tarzan Of The Apes.
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| ERB: The Narrator |
Now if ERB is going to go through all the trouble of changing the principal characters' names to protect their identity, it is only obvious ERB is not going to supply the true Greystoke sailing date or give the couples true destinations or locations.
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| 1872-6-26 Fuwalda arrives in Portuguse Angola. |
Joe Ferrier - And there were no 6-cylinder cars in 1893 - driven by Robert Canler or anyone else - so we know Tarzan was not 21 then as you would have us believe, "APES" couldn't have ended anytime prior to 1903 when six-cylinder engines were manufactured in automobiles.
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| 1885 Gottlieb Daimler |
Mike Moody - I find it amazing that you can't accept that the 1872 steam and electric cars were updated to modern descriptions to sell the false 1888 Greystoke sailing date. Yet, you can easily accept that Jane and Tarzan met earlier than ERB writes. They have premarital sex at age 12 1/2 (Tarzan) and 13-15 (Jane).
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| 1886 Pioneer - Daimler engine into stagecoach. |
You just got through writing "Jane Porter Clayton was born in 1889 in Baltimore, Maryland, a year younger than her Jungle Lord." That would make Jane 11 1/2 not 13-15 as you indicate in your chronology.
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| Tarzan Of The Apes |
You then write. "We now know that Tarzan had a second son." Please inform me what Burroughs Tarzan story, and what page you get this information from. I thought I had read all the Tarzan series, but evidently, I missed one. Can any right-thinking aficionado of ERB adventures actually buy into such hocus-pocus hypothesis? PJF's Tarzan Alive is not about ERB's Tarzan of the Apes.
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| Tarzan Of The Apes |
Joe Ferrier - Your theory, trying to make Jack/Korak turn 21 before World War I, 1914-1918, is just as incongruous as Hanson's "Tarzan Korak" theory, although a modicum more sensible.
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| J. Alan St. John |
Mike Moody - My pushback 1872 chronology theory certainly tries to make Korak old enough to fight in World War I. I don't know where you came up with the 21 stuff.
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| Frank Frazetta |
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| Boris Vallejo |
Mike Moody - If you based your chronology around Logic 101 I don't believe I want any. I apologize to you, Joe, and to all my ERB brothers and sisters for my lack of sentence syntax. But my heart is pure. Now while we are signing up for lessons, Joe. How about you taking a course on manners, because you sure don't seem to practice any.
.jpeg "Boris Vallejo") |
| J. Alan St. John |
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
James Michael Moody is a lifelong fan and collector of Edger Rice Burroughs. Moody has contributed over two hundred articles to various ERB-related fanzines over forty-five years. He also manages an unauthorized Tarzan blog titled, Greystoke Chronologist: James Michael Moody. There the researcher chronologies the Tarzan books starting in May 1872 (known as the pushback theory) instead of the more accepted date, May 1888.
James Michael Moody is also the author of the action-packed Sci-Fi fantasy adventure Unium series. Pioneers On Unium, published December 31, 2019, Exiled On Unium, published August 25, 2022, and Swordsman On Unium published on July 15, 2024.
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